Helicopter and VTOL Controls Thread – Vector Thrust

Before complete the implementation of the Helicopter and addition of the VTOL mechanics, it was decided to share the idea with all of you.

Helicopter controls:

Move forward:

Move backward:

Climb:

Decend:

Decreases thrust.

Strafe:

Turn:

For the VTOL aircrafts:

To Climb:

To descend:

To strafe:

To move forward:

To move backward:

And this is the idea.

What do you think?

I like the idea of the helicopter controls directly affecting where the vehicle goes instead of leaving it up to physics. The helicopters in games like the GTA series and saints row 2 could be pretty hard to control. I do have an idea for VTOLs, however.

If you’re flying something like a harrier you don’t really need to be able to activate VTOL mode manually because it’s not meant to be used for combat maneuvers (that I know of), to make the plane easier to field (since it can land anywhere a helicopter can land). To enter VTOL mode you get close to the ground and slow down to below stalling speed you plane could enter VTOL mode automatically (kind of like how planes in ace combat automatically drop their landing gear when you make an approach). To switch back you would just start moving forward until you’re going fast enough to fly conventionally.

Now with a transport like a V-22 Osprey, where you would want to be able to hover at any time so that you can deploy troops, you would use the missile button to switch modes (sort of treating the troop deployment ability like a special weapon), hovering over a building, and the soldiers would rappel down automatically.

Ideally though, it would be nice to make the mode switching system as flexible as possible, so you could give pretty much any vehicle the ability to have any kind of mode (flight, hover, amphibious , custom modes with varying weapons and handling characteristics, etc) and switch between them at the push of a button. Not sure what button you would use on, say, a video game controller though? Is bore sight used for anything yet?

Edited by: bornloser

I’d suggest to have the mode change with only a single button (or maybe two) as well (think about Macross mods

Also, @TS: I think you forgot about using rudders while hovering (for turning)? And TBH I’m not too fond of ‘turn on autopilot to ascend/descend’ while in hover mode. By using throttle buttons to raise/lower altitude should be enough already.

Edited by: Nergal01

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anon wrote:

‘anon’ wrote: Now I shall use this ‘Vector Thrust Threshold’ to measure how awful your product is

If you’re going to use a combination of two or more buttons to switch modes please let us choose both/all of them for ergonomic reasons.

“Now with a transport like a V-22 Osprey, where you would want to be able to hover at any time so that you can deploy troops, you would use the missile button to switch modes (sort of treating the troop deployment ability like a special weapon), hovering over a building, and the soldiers would rappel down automatically.”

I like the sound of that.

Well I like the layout of the Heli controls and the problem with aiming could be averted with a “auto lock” feature for the gun(s). But the problem with the VTOL-Craft controls is that you have to take in consideration of people who want flight stick and 360/6AXIS controller support. But VTOL/Heli controls could be fairly easy to do with 6AXIS controllers if you think hard about it.

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Noli Timere Messorem

Looks like I might finally have to spring for one of those

@bornloser, the idea of dropping troops with the V-22 Osprey is awesome!

The bore sight it is used to select an enemy inside the circle.

The VTOL mode will be possible configure per unit if you want it to activate automatically or require you to press a button.

The idea of having a unit able of mimic any type unit will be implemented as well, but probably will be only added when all units’ types (or at least most of them) are added to the game, like helis, infantry, carries and others, including the possibility of having more than 2 modes.

@V3000TT

The turning while hovering in VTOL was not forgotten, but it will work the same in both modes so it wasn’t mentioned here.

I’m not really too fond either with the need of using the autopilot in order to climb/descend. But at the moment it seems the best option.

If I recall correctly, the Air force Delta Strike used that method. (climbing until it got enough speed to change to normal mode) The main problem of that approach was visible in a level. I don’t know exactly how the mission it was, but it was in a strait tight tunnel, the main difficulty was the tunnel was so tight that was almost impossible to make a U turn. I assumed that the mission was calling for a VTOL. I don’t now know if other player had any better luck, but every time activated the VTOL I knew I already failed the mission.

If pushing the throttle would raise speed and altitude I would hit the ceiling long before I had sufficient speed to change to normal mode.

So you see, the main issue if that approach is that it will not work if you what to make a mission where the VTOL enters a structure.

@ Midsummersnow

Other option is to be able to turn and aim with the mouse. The turret would most like be the first to reach the direction followed by the heli. The problem of this approach is the default layout we would need at least 3 hands to control everything.

I didn’t even though of using the 6AXIS, but with that, controlling a VTOL will probably be a piece of cake.

Edited by: timeSymmetry

Kamov KA-50 Black Shark please

Hmmm, as long as VTOL planes are being brought up, I might as well mention “Viffing” as it was a tactic used in the Falklands War. Seems to make it so that a VTOL plane can do some interesting maneuvering with its thrust vectored down. Seems like it’d give Harriers some teeth if this is implemented.

The little article below comes from a book that I found online with some info on Viffing.

The book is called Fighter Combat Tactics and Maneuvering

Some V/STOL fighters can improve their instantaneous turn performance through a technique known as “VIFFing” (vectoring in forwardflight), in which thrust vectoring can be used to assist the wings. Bypointing the exhaust downward (relative to the aircraft), thrust vectoringincreases instantaneous load factor by about 1 G. Under slow-speed, low-Gconditions this feature might double instantaneous turn performance, butat high speed and high G its effect would be minimal. This increased turnperformance also must be paid for, however. Since essentially all the thrustis directed downward, there is no forward component to oppose drag, andtherefore the aircraft will decelerate even faster than a conventionalfighter performing a similar maneuver. The V/STOL fighter operating inthis way needs all that good T/W to accelerate out of its energy hole afterthe turn.Not all V/STOLs have the option of using thrust vectoring in thismanner. In particular, the lift-jet designs often have intake covers thatopen outwardly to deflect air into the lift fans. These deflectors may haveONE-VERSUS-ONE MANEUVERING, DISSIMILAR AIRCRAFT 187airspeed limitations, and if not, they would certainly act as speedbrakes,further increasing deceleration. Another problem with the lift-fan/lift-jetdesign is fuel flow. Cranking up those jets for a magic turn can double totalfuel flow and greatly decrease combat endurance. The lift jets usually areintended for use during takeoff and landing, and they must be carried asdead weight during the rest of the mission. This feature generally increasesaircraft weight and decreases fuel storage space, and it also may result ininstallation of a smaller main engine. All these handicaps tend to reduceT/W and the combat endurance of the lift-jet V/STOL variety, which isusually inferior to the pure thrust-vector type.The unique characteristics of the V/STOL fighters make them wellsuited to energy tactics. Their good sustained turn, acceleration, and zoomcapabilities can be capitalized on by energy methods. Some models are ableto vector exhaust nozzles well forward for use as airborne thrust reversers.This feature provides very rapid deceleration and, possibly in conjunctionwith increased instantaneous turn performance, may be useful in preventing or causing overshoots. Rapid deceleration is also invaluable in the earlystages of a flat scissors or a defensive spiral. Normally, VIFFing should bereserved for such defensive or terminal-offensive situations.One glaring exception to this rule, however, is the vertical reversal aftera zoom climb. If the rear nozzles can be deflected downward (toward thebelly of the aircraft) while the fighter is near vertical in a slow-speed zoomclimb, the aircraft can be made to pitch forward and “swap ends” veryquickly to point down at the bogey. Alternatively, thrust vectoring may beused to increase G over the top of a more conventional looping maneuver.This capability, as well as the usually fine sustained turn performance andgood slow-speed control, also can make this a very mean opponent in arolling scissors. All these attributes, and small size, often result in a veryfine energy fighter; but energy tactics and the added complexity of operating this type of aircraft require highly skilled pilots and extraordinaryair-to-air training.The ability to swivel rear-mounted exhaust nozzles of a fighter upwardrelative to the aircraft makes a V/STOL or other thrust-vector fighter morecompatible with angles tactics. When combined with an airframe that iswell behaved at a high angle of attack, VIFFing, much like the thrustvector control system discussed earlier for missiles, can cause a fighter topivot about its CG and literally swap ends at virtually any airspeed. Theability to point quickly in any direction can be extremely valuable, particularly when the aircraft is equipped with all-aspect missiles. Again,however, such thrust-vector maneuvers should be used judiciously because of the rapid energy dissipation that results.The hover capability of the V/STOL is often highly overrated in theair-to-air environment. First of all, most V/STOLs lack hover capability atrealistic operating weights and altitudes. Even if these aircraft could stopin midair, attitude control is usually not adequate for aiming boresightweapons at an enemy fighter unless the bogey flies in front of the weapon.Off-boresight weapons may make this tactic slightly more feasible; butstill, a motionless aircraft presents an all-aspect heat source and is a sitting188 ONE-VERSUS-ONE MANEUVERING, DISSIMILAR AIRCRAFTduck for nearly any weapon in the enemy’s arsenal, either air-to-air orsurface-to-air. (The Doppler radar-guided AAM is a notable exception tothis rule.)For a conventional fighter opposing a V/STOL, angles tactics usuallywill be more appropriate. The angles fighter pilot must be mindful of theV/STOL bogey’s ability to generate overshoots and be ready to quarter rollaway and pitch off high in case the V/STOL slaps on a “bat-turn.” In such acase the bogey pilot has most likely forfeited his vertical capability forincreased turn performance, so the angles fighter pilot should find a safesanctuary at higher altitude, provided he has practiced good energy management himself. If the pilot of the angles fighter allows himself to get wellbelow vertical-maneuvering speed, such an overshoot probably will resultin a flat scissors, placing him in deep and serious kimchi. The rollingscissors also should be avoided unless the V/STOL bogey is obviously lowon energy, like after a magic turn; and a defensive spiral must be rejected atany cost. In short, the pilot of the conventional fighter often will obtain thebest results from the early use of careful angles tactics to keep pressure onthe V/STOL bogey and deplete its energy. Then, when the V/STOL pilotdecides to use his VIFFing ability for slow fighting, the angles fighter pilotcan revert to energy tactics. If the engagement cannot be ended quickly,and the bogey is allowed to regain its energy, it may be necessary for thepilot of the conventional fighter to resume angles tactics once more.

Well Times if you choose use the mouse to aim the gun-turret(‘s) on heli’s it would be good to be able set the right analogue stick on a joypad as an alternative.

If you mange to get 6AXIS to be fully compatible with VT these are the controls which would be good:

Face Buttons:

Command Buttons:

D-Pad:

Right Trigger Buttons:

Left Trigger Buttons:

Right Stick:

Left Stick:

Edited by: mittsommerschnee

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Noli Timere Messorem

Speaking of mouse control, it would be nice to have the crazy aileron movement fixed and aircraft movement smoothened when operating with mouse controls for the normal aircraft.

I think that’s got something to do with your mouse sensitivity try turning it down and that might do the trick. Don’t ask me how though each computers/mouse is different.

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Noli Timere Messorem